Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations

I was playing Star Trek: Bridge Commaner a while back and i was running a skirmish between a Klingon Bird of Prey and a Romulan  Warbird and the AI was on Hard. I bae the sh*t out of the warbird and i took very little damage. do you think this is possible in the real star trek universe?

a bird of prey?

thats the frigate of the klingon army, the warbird the dreadnought of the romulans...

that in mind,

no i dont think so  ;)  

well an ai is no human and a bop is a vryy strong ship in the movies but i doubt it could beat a war bird

No it couldnt, even if u compare just the share size of them, the bop looks like a damn shuttle next to the warbird :)  

The only BoP that has a chance is the D'tai class. The others are simply too weak, even with the Warbirds manuvering difficulties.

I don't think that a warbird will ever be outclassed by a Bird of prey just not enough fire power on the little BoP to do any real damage even the larger K'vort and D'tai :huh: ? Never heard of it... anyway Klingon birds just don't have the firepower it took three war bread (Yesterday's Enterprise TNG) K'vorts to even outclass a Galaxy  

Yeah the Warbird would tractor it and put a plasma torp right down its throat and that would be that.

The D'tai class BoP is larger then a Vorcha, it would be the only BoP I can think of that would be powerful enough.

i agree here, there are several different sizes of bops and some of them you cannot see with naked eye how new or strong they are.

but no bop could ever beat a warbird ^_^

DOCa Cola

bop's weapons compared to a warbird is like you poking a tank with you finger to destroy it.

never heard of that d'tai class?

sounds like a sweet machine i love the BoP when I play klingon i have whole fleets of them, to bad they suck  :(  

the D'tai has a wingspan equal to the length of the negh'var, 680 meters it is a heavy dreadnought. it packs like 16 disruptors and 4 photon torpedoes but is as sluggish as a warbird. and besides you are all biased against the klingons! I beleive i could do it with a bre'l class, call me crazy if you wish but i would have hell of at story when i entered sto'vo'kor! :lol:  

Well one on one with a D'tai and D'deridex would be something i'd pay to see.

From what sources did you all get that D'tai class?
 

Well, the BOP in Bridge Commaner is ridiculous, you can defeat just about any ship!

I would say definately no, on a Star Trek universe, the BOP is just too weak and small to defeat a 1000 meter Quantum Singularity powered Warbird.  

D'Tai? cairo1 told me you made it up.
did you?

lol no it's a real ship all right, lemme find pic...

(http://www.ditl.org/gpaf/GDtai1.jpg)

Thats the only time it's been used in an episode I believe. Only 12 ever made because of structural integrity problems if I recall.

thats from "The Defector (http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68422.html)" - i remember, the romulans had quite respect back then :)


DOCa Cola

Ok think of it like this... a Galaxy Class is about an even match for a Warbird... a BOP has no chance against a galaxy class (sept if Diana Troi is driving)

BOPs are fast and maneuverable a warbird isnt... but all together, I think BOP's are strong in numbers but not on they're own  :blink:  

indd bops are good in numbers, cloaking and decloaking making devastating attacks, maybe 2 or 3 bops can fight off a warbird but 1 bop is outgunned, even if you are manauvrable you can't win if you don't have enough shields to witstand an attack

ummm.......in that pic, those are K'vort.....

I thought K'vorts were a lot smaller than that.

We should all know onscreen scale doesn't exactly matter much in the ST universe, especially in TNG. Those could well be K'vorts, scaled up for dramatic effect, to make them more menacing.

As for the original question - One BoP is simply not enough to beat a Warbird. Three might make it. The only thing single BoPs are really useful for is pounding ships called Enterprise.

well ther where different types of hips that look just like a BOP but isn't like the k'vort  so  who can tell if it is a BOP in teh pic.


but if a BoP wants a death wish then it would fight a warbird

I still dont believe their is a D'tai class i think they are K'vorts with lumpy
they are probly just in a diffrent perspiceteve

i also think those a k'vort's

You're all forgetting that most ships cant fire at close range.

Remember the ds9 episode when they went to the parallel universe, the defiant class defeated the negh'var class. (Made it run away)

I think with constant close attacks inside the shield, it could do lots of damage.. Not to mention the cloak. Cloak and come up right underneath near its power core, pop a few torpedoes and a disrupter barage.

i dont think a ship can move thru shields of another ship, that would be illogical since then a torpedo wich is also mass would go right thru the shields and hit the hull....

Shields are meant to fend off energy bursts or smaller objects, but something the size of a ship? besides the defiant class outguns a BOP B'rel or k'vort, A D'tai, ... well... lets say, a D'Derix class warbird (carfull there, Warbird is a comon name for romulan ships/capitol ships, expecialy since they have new ones now.) is evenly matched some what with a galaxy class, a D'tai by the sounds of its maneuverability and wepaons even with a galaxy, only thing with both tipping it against the galaxy realy is a cloaking device wich both the romulans and klingons have. So D'derix vs D'tai prety even,  But a D'tai against a newer class of warbird, It tipps more to the romulans.

Massive objects can indeed penetrate the shields, like when the NCC-1701-E Collided with the Scimatar when the Scimatar's shields were at 70%. Torpeodes are smaller, thus will be affected by starship shields.  

The so-called D'Tai is definitely really a K'Vort made bigger for dramaturgic reasons. Definitely a really bad move by the TNG folks, they should have used vorchas instead. Oh well.

Well what they call it is another scale up of the BoP. Guess them Klingons don't know when to leave a hull design alone.

when will they learn to leave the bird-of-prey alone. it is fine the way it is

the klingons love to do more with less
 

the b'rel is armed to the teeth:
two wing-mounted disrupter cannons
two twin wing-mounted phaser cannons
1 photon/poleron torpedo launcher

about half a task force of these things can kic the sh*t out of most heavy fed ships

I think that Warbird should be stronger then BoP. It's a pity that we never saw D'deridex in Tv shows effective in combat. Actualy we often saw that they are very easily destroyed (seen in DS9 and Voyager series that included USS Prometheus).

I remember one scene from TNG where a three-shot disruptor burst from a D'deridex was enough to disable Enterprise. The rommies probably fried their disruptor cannons inthe process, but that still is some impressive firepower.

On the other hand, they're said to be less than enough shielded for their size, so they're awesome ships for surprise attacks, but won't survive in long-lasting slugging matches.

that is trew

but keep in mind that the warbird uses an artificial quantum singularity as a power source, a lot better than a matter/antimatter reaction chamber.a power source of that magnitude is needed to supply power to a ship
that is over twice the size of a galaxy class, so the disruptors got way more power than the enterprise d's sheilds could take. so they broke through in three shots

Do you have proof how much better it is then a standard anti-matter/matter power system? Also keep in mind our present power stations usually don't work over 35% efficiency.

exactally, if at 50% efficiency, warbirds can kick the sh*t out of the entire fed fleet.

Uh then how did the Enterprise last so long against the Scimitar when the 2 Norexan classes were dropped fairly easily?

thay pored wheaties breakfast cereal i the worp core. its caled the sotty munover.

Spammer...

mmmmmmmm wheaties
well, pouring wheaties into the power core would blow the ship up

Salaam!

Does a warbird have aft weapons? If so then I would assume no, but if he has no aft weapons, then ATTACK!!! I think it takes some time to target a ship with the tractor beam, so decloak fire cloak, and so on.

how about we phone the high council and ask them?

Along with some peoples posts, they clearly state that BoP's are very strong for their size.. maybe two BoP's could do some serious damage, but i doubt it could destroy it all.. unless they kamakazed into the power supply. :P

Klingons don't have phasers or phaser cannons. And a little ship that's what, 40 to 60 meters long? isn't going to stand a chance against anything bigger than a Danube runabout.

But yeah the Norexans were developed because of the demonstrated weakness of the D'deridex's shields in the Dominion war. And the Enterprise - E lasted so long against the Scimitar for a few reasons: it's a Sovereign, the most powerful ship built in the Alpha Quadrant, and it's Picard's ship. Do you really expect it to just up and explode? hahahaha

I think a BOP can at least destroy a Sabre/ Saber class ship. The big problem for a BoP are strong shields and large weapon arcs.

Well I just don't see a bop winning on its own with the limited recources it has at its disposal, but I do like the whole ramming idea, It seems like the Klingons might do something just that desprate, and the right place would sure cause a lot of damage to a Derdrix. other than that even accounting for no sign of an aft weapons array and no manuverbility compared to the small bop the Warbird still has a massive firepower and shieldign advantage over the Bop. so I am left to wonder a comparison between a dominon bug and a bop as this might help us to see how the bop would do considering we already know how a fighter would do.

Fullphaser

I'm not so sure a B'rel could take down a Saber, it would depend an awful lot on surprise and the relative skills of the captains and crews. In my opinion it would be close. Especially if one ship or the other landed a hit or two from a torpedo weapon, it would be all over. Though I'm sure the Saber's shields are better.

A Saber would most definately destroy a BoP, and probably a B'rel. K'vort is another story.

I don't know about the loss of a Bop to a saber. Despite the saber's apparent warship like nature, it is still tactically underpowered and probably more shielded, considering that the ship was designed mainly to fight the borg I imagine the weapons reflect that combat stlye with quality over quanity, and that those weapons are versitle rather than powerful. The Bop however is a warship stem to stern, and could probably easily make up for shielding with powerful weapons for a ship of its size

Heh well if we want to really analyze this, consider that the Saber is firing a phaser beam, which probably isn't going to miss, especially considering the advanced sensor capabilities of a starfleet vessel. The BoP on the other hand has older electronics, or at least less impressive targeting capabilities, and can likely be fooled by the most advanced ECM, making it harder to hit the Saber, which in any case will be maneuvering rapidly against phased disruptors, which travel slowly and tend to miss small targets.

On the other hand the BoP has cloak and likely the element of surprise. In my opinion if the Klingon commander doesn't sufficiently damage the impulse engines and/or the phaser bank on his first pass he's dead.

No a BoP would definately lose to a Saber no question. A b'rel class could put up a fight but lose also seeing as it's not too much more powerful then the BoP. K'vort would win because it's alot more heavily armed and shielded.

The K'Vort would still be vulnerable to torpedo strikes on its disruptors, shields or not. I know it looks cool to have them hanging off the wings like that, but it's a really dumb place to put something so important.

Well a Saber is vunerable to a Torpedo strike to it's Torpedo launcher. I mean where else can you put the guns? You can't have then in the middle of the ship because then they can't fire.

hmm..... Everytime i read this thread, i read "no way a BoP will surely loose..." and so on. If this is true why the f*ck is the BoP still in use? Hmm. Ah I know it's the postal machine of the Klingon army, delivering the Post to the Battle-Front or the Klingons use the BoP to fly to the next fly-Through-Restaurant like Space Donalds or the like.

Yeah it's the delivery truck. Too bad it's so small, it would take a lot of deliveries to deliver anything.

Another few thoughts:
- Warbirds most likely have rear firing disruptors. I seen them having a disruptor array at the very bottom of their hull. However, a few disruptor shots won't break through the shields of even a BoP very quickly, else the Duras Sisters's BoP would have been in more trouble against a Galaxy Class, even with them having no effective shield power and all.
- So it's very likely that the BoP can maneuver around enough to avoid the most heavy weapons fire, i.e. the Plasma Cannons and Pulse Disruptors. The little Klink could probably pour quite a lot of firepower into the D'deridex's shields before getting hit too often.
- This won't do him any good, though, as the Warbird's shields are simply too strong for him to break through. The BoP's shields, on the other hand, will eventually lose to the vastly superior firepower of a ship ten times it's size.

- BTW, would somebody please explain to me the difference between a Bird of Prey and a B'rel? I only know of two types of Klingon Birds of Prey. Small and Large.

About the BoP vs. aber thing:
Much the same as before, but less obvious. Saber has much more advanced technology and likely more firepower. Saber has better shields and better firing arcs. So eventually the Saber would win, except if the Klingons score a critical hit (destroy a warp nacelle, the torp launcher, the bridge, etc.)

Were this DS9, though, I wouldn't be surprised if a BoP destroyed a Saber in one disruptor salvo, though. I've seen weirder things.

There are 4 types I know of.

1. Is the old original BoP basically real small, old, and can be destroyed by a few hits of anything.

2. The larger B'rel class was used in the 4th movie I think. A more formidable ship but is still fairly weak and old.

3. K'vort class, newer and a few of these can really take on anything. Pretty heavily armed for a ship of their size.

4. The biggest one of them all, the D'tai class. Only 12 were made and all lost in Dom war. Real powerful tho, something I've wanted to see.

Actually let me do it like this.

BoP, fixed upside down V shape design.

B'rel, Wings can go up from upside down V shape to land on planets.

K'vort, Fixed nearly flat wing design.

D'tai, K'vort design but about 5 times larger.

In this list, when was there ever a BoP? The first Klingon (actually Romulan, but that's another story) BoP to appear in the movies was Kruge's ship, which is the one from STIV an V too i think. Okay, I DO have more knowledge about the BoP, but I fail to acknowledge the existence of the smallest and largest types, regardless of what DITL says.

Let's see...

BoP (B'rel?) scout - STIII, IV, V, VI (refit): TMP era scout vessel, lightly armed. has landing capability. Length around 80 m. One of only a handful of ships that had cloak.
D-12 (still B'rel?) destroyer - based on the BoP, but built around the TNG era. (I think it is stated that the D-12 in ST:G is around 30 yrs old). All BoP type ships in TNG and DS9 were these. Length around 130 m.
K'Vort - Wings fixed upwards, no longer able to land on planets (just guessing here), cruiser class. About the same age as d-12 or newer.
D'tai - Really a K'vort, made larger to look more menacing in "Defector".

That's my list. Unfortunately in ST there are so many uncertainties that every fan has his own view of the ST universe. I sure have mine.

Thanks Yaso, that's what I pointed out earlier in this thread, but didn't remember the episode name.

Scaling up a BoP model to that size is lunacy anyway because the engineering section could hold like 20 Sovereign warp cores (giant rectangular box, think about it). In my opinion one of the biggest mistakes the TNG production crew ever made.

I think they just made everything larger Cool, just made the warp core the size of a K'vorts times how many times the D'tai is larger.

Actually I think a B'rel is the same as a K'vort they are the same size but 2 differant classes of ships. This is a huge screw up by the designers as they have 2 names for the same class of ship. Optec may wanna fix that. The BoP is 2 classes called the D-4 scout and D-13 destroyer. The D-4 is an extremely old ship and the D-13 is the ship you see flying around in the Klingon fleet everywhere.

The D-4 dosen't have movable wings but the D-13 does.

D-4 = Scout BoP - decomissioned

D-13 = Standard BoP

B'rel = K'vort - Not the small D-13 like in FO

D'tai = Huge ass BoP - all destroyed

okay damnit here is the truth:
a klingon bird of prey as seen in star trek III is the same model sa the one in generations the 50 year old defective cloaking d-12 class BOP.
the kvort are an alternate timeline ship only seen in the greatest TNG episode Yesterdays Enterprise. The next time we see large birds of prey they are the br'el class and 2 disable a galaxy class ship and then the idiot ferengi take over the ent. later in DS9 the bops such as the rotarran are refered to as just that birds of prey so the casual bop is like a d-15? or something and the kvort shuld be renamed tp the b'rel. Whew.........  ;)  

Now I'm confused.

I know of two uses for the model:
1) Small. Wings can move, ship can land. See movies 3&4. Also used in movies 5&6 (wrongly, as the BoP was not a Klingon design originally). Later used further in DS9 and such to depict a maneuverable destroyer.
2) Large. TNG messed up ship sizes on a daily basis. But some of the shots show BoPs with clearly the wingspan of a Vor'cha or larger. Not possible this is the same ship as above (though it might look larger than it is). They are also always shown with their wings up, so I suppose they no longer have the ability to move them.

I don't really know
1) what the ship in Generations was, but she WAS destroyed with one Photon burst, so I'm assuming destroyer class rather than cruiser.
2) what the ships in the episode with the Ferengi (TNG: "Rascals"?) were
3) why I can't remember any 'large' type BoPs in DS9?! Maybe all the TNG BoPs really were 'small' ones?

I'll go looking for source pics now.

EDIT: Read THIS (http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/bop-size.htm).

Ok Yasu, kvort is way off. Just follow my example because i'm right.

Most of the ships in TNG are B'rel/V'vorts.

In DS9 they used alot of reg BoPs or D-13s.

The ship seen in STIII I think was an early version or actually a D-13.

I tend to agree with ex-astris-scientia actually. The idea of a bigger B'rel with better weaponry and shields (the K'vort) makes sense to me as far as the game is concerned, so I don't think anything needs to be changed.

But in the game the B'rel is the smaller ship...so what youy just said is it does need to be changed.

wow, all this over a stupid klingon bird of prey?

Wow, bob just spammed again?

The good 'ol BoP discussion finally. I like it; Back to Saber/Sabre -> A BoP can cloak!!! Simply cloak sneak behind decloak fire and fly away. The only time it isn't going to work is, when the Klingons where at SpaceDonalds before and ordered SuperSize Quarter-pounders with Takelarian cheese and a SuperSize space-o-cola. :mellow:

No Praetor I meant I like the K'vort being a larger B'rel. In the end I guess the names aren't important though, I really like the concept of the older smaller weaker bird of prey that's cheap augmented with a bigger newer one that's more expensive.

Now we just need to get them grouped into fighter strike squadrons ...

Uh smoerebroed, you can't use hit and run tactics effectively on ships armed with Phasers, you'll get killed real quick.

And cool, the K'vort and B'rel are the SAME ship. It wouldn't be right to have a small B'rel.

I know what you mean-> instant hit beam weapons. In one TNG Episode about the life of some young grasshoppers onbord the Enterprise. On of them is has duty on the bridge and they practice aiming (and he is rather slow at that)-> they still aim manually and if a ship travels through space on cond. green they have no shields and the like raised and the crew is unprepared for an attack. Suprise suprise! Even if they are fast reacting it still takes some time to aim-> maybe long enough to cloack again? Maybe not. How knows? We could discuss this endless, it's the same like arguing wich browser is the best one or wich OS.

The Excelsior Enterprise subtype has a system where when a cloaked ship fires at it, it throws the shields up, and it automatically calculates where the fire came from and fires some Phaser bursts from the source.

I'm not sure if they implemented that for the present ships but according to how they always getting shot up in the shows, prolly not. Also how Enterprise E fought the Scimitar, of course computers should be able to calculate where the fire came from and return fire automatically, but that wouldn't make for a very interesting movie would it?

The whole instant hit beam weapons stuff is not good for a motion picture, but more realistic. Hrmpf. Well, so be it the BoP is the truck of the Klingon Empire and transports all unnecessary stuff like... tribles or Saurian Brandy, or Worf's son.  

Yeah I think for dramaturgic reasons you can't have auto-targeting computers, because then there wouldn't be anything interesting to watch. ("Captain to the bridge! We've been fired upon, but actually the computer already blew everybody up oh well never mind go back to reading your book.")

Yeah I know it's true, but in FO this auto-target thing couldn't do much damage, good idea for feds I think.

Well the overwhelming majority seems to say that the Bop of almost any realistic size would loose to a Warbird. and that the only chance that a ship may have is if it had a really good captain, and a really stupid romulan one, which with the screening process probably put in place by the Tal shiar that wouldn't happen, so my vote goes for the Warbird woot. As for the Bop and her sister minsculated sized ships vs. a x ship on x date now that is another story ;)  

A D'tai has a good chance, the rest don't.

well when ever i used to play Bc i killed warbirds with no hastle as a bop the way i see it is if u were a kvort it might be able to keeping behind and low and cloaking every few mins or so always behind teh warbird it could work remember photons are very powerfull especially klingon ones

as for Bop vs sabre = bop wins evertime

its heracy to suggest otherwise i love the sabre but no way in hell scenario

Bop decloaks on unsuspecting sabre aims photons at sabre warp core by the time shields are up its over

or u could be sneaky and use changs bop :ph34r:  

A K'vort has little chance vs a D'Deridex or a Norexan because they both DO have aft firing weapons.

A BoP vs Saber duel is the same, Saber has more weapons and they are more powerful. Also the advantage of firing from behind and the sides, although a cloak attack may work, chances are it wouldn't destroy the Saber.

however it would do alot and probally cripple them

as for the dderidex it could win all you gota do is stay below it romulans arent famous for good firing archs

I'm going to guess that the sheer mass of a Warbird would make it invulnerable to a BoP. I think you'd melt the weapons systems before you could destroy enough metal on a Warbird, assuming its shields were down, which they won't be, and I have a VERY hard time believing that anything you can put on a little 60 meter ship can penetrate the shields (crappy romulan variety that they are) on an 800m+ battleship.

well see thats the thing how do you know think of it this way voyager vs cube who won same thing can happen with a bop

Voyager vs a Cube is a fluke. It's a show thats how she wins every Borg battle.

As for the BoP vs D'deridex, the warbirds shields wouldn't drop below 80 percent. With the warbirds cloak she could get into a good position and 1 alpha strike and it's over.

hahaha Voyager reference ... yeah that show was probably the most craptacular of all the star treks when trying to do any tactical space battles. They could have learned a lot  from DS9. The amazing thing is Janeway would always wait till shields were gone and hull breaches all over the place, warp core breach imminent etc. and then somehow kill all 20 cubes with a single torpedo or something. Very very dumb

DS9 was a fluke also. The Defiant class itself is an uber ship that shouldn't have happened. Although they did show a few episodes where it realistically had some real fights with a few bugships, later on it become invinsible.

yeh but it did die :P

the way i see it is u never know for example say the bop has a good knowledge of warbird systems isnt there away to force the enemy to reset shield harmonics yeah thats it

Bop decloaks fires tacyon pulse
Warbird resets shields
Bop alpha strike Engines
Warbird Crippled  

A BoP has 0% chance vs a warbird, it's THAT simple. A BoP simply cannot repel the amount of firepower a warbird has, a few disruptor blasts and it's gone, no chance.

its not always about raw fire power you should know that and trek dictates this many times where u see much smaller ships beating much larger ones

like when the klingon dude whats he called Kor fought off 10jem hadar ships in one bop

That'S DS9; In DS9 every fed ship flew around without shields and never returned fire;

DS9 was a fluke I said. You know how retarded it is for one BoP to survive against a single bugship?

I don't know about the bugships, there is a lot of contradictory "evidence" out there. On the one hand three of them smoked the Yamoto (?) Galaxy class at the start of the Dom wars. On the other hand a runabout nailed one in DS9 when its weak point was revealed by one of the Vorta clones. Those are type VI or VII phasers guys (compare to IX on Saber and X on Galaxy, Defiant, and of course XII on Sovereign). And I seem to remember another DS9 episode when Sisko and Martok are in the Defiant and a Kvort I think and smoked bug ships in one salvo.

So I think the bug ship is like the Saber, arcs, surprise, and skill of the tactical officers would win the day in a 1 on 1 with a B'rel. K'Vort would blow it away no question.  

Yes a K'vort/B'rel could take one on but not a BoP. And yes for some reason the bugship can be powerful or weak depending on the episode. The Galaxy class Odessy was destroyed when a bugship ramed it's warp core.

the yamato thing was an exception it was before starfleet figured out how to defend against dominion beam weapons because they would penetrate the shields with no defense  

yeah I remember they made a big deal out of how polaron weapons could go right through shields, but then they magically fixed that in the entire fleet in like a week. whatever.

as far as ramming goes, I've always been insulted that ships can ram each other when their shields are up. the gravimetric forces from just the deflector should be enough to stop any ship up to cube size in its tracks, then with the shields added on ... I mean the generators might overload and explode but then there wouldn't be much ship left to ram, and the explosion would probably nail the rammer pretty good too.

The Yamato blew up in TNG and had NOTHING to do with DS9. It blew up right in front of the enterprise because some computer problem caused it to lose anti-matter containment. I won't reveal how the rest of the episode goes.

The ship that was blown up by the bugships was the Odessy.

Gee they must have been using Windows 2360 or something. Software seems to be rushed out the door prematurely now, imagine in 360 years. The Chief Engineer obviously forgot to patch it!

haha, dont you think it will all be linux then?  ;)

if I remember correctly the binaus had something to do with it (or however you spell it)

Star Trek can't be 100% organised.
Deal with it.

no now we are f***ing up yeh yamato was a tng thing he is riht but the point is stop going off topic a kvort i reckon could beat a warbird

You reckon wrong, a standard K'vort class cruiser cannot deal with a D'deridex class warbird. Theres no way getting past that, they both got cloaks, and the D'deridex CAN fire behind.

I was just watching the doubleheader episodes of DS9 when Gowron and Martok attack the Detapa council, and then attack DS9. Anyway part of that episode involved the Defiant blowing two B'rels to pieces in under 10 seconds with only its PPCs. You really thinks ships that small with that little armor stand a chance against a battleship of any race?

The discussions about bugships versus sabers versus k'vorts is fun but the original topic is pretty dumb.

yeh but then you see a galaxy being slaughtered by them in Yesterdays enterprise  

There was 3 of them if I recall, and these are K'vorts. K'vorts in wolf packs are dangerous foes because they rely on each other to protect their weaknesses. K'vorts alone are fairly easy to take out. I also recall 1 of them was destroyed during the conflict.

look damnit, i  did it in star trek bridge commander, so bite me for calling the orignal topic being stupid, if i didn't want your opinions I would have not posted the goddamned thing.

I'd say that I'd agree with the Chancellor.  Size doesn't always matter; it's just the muscle used that counts.  A BOP can easily escape a Warbird's firing arcs and come about with unleashed fury.

I'd say that I'd agree with the Chancellor.  Size doesn't always matter; it's just the muscle used that counts.  A BOP can easily escape a Warbird's firing arcs and come about with unleashed fury.

The D'deridex has arcs all over it despite people thinking their all forward. Trust me, it has LITTLE chance. Lol, bridge commander? I have it and that game is extremely uncanon. Don't wanna say anything but they screwed up the warbird big time. Anyone who relys on it for information is a moron.

funny that is what started this topic in the first place wasn't it? heh... yeah every post here with the exception of some extremly resiliant folks agree that the BOP of any size will never ever be a match for the oversized warbird

One alpha strike on a B'rel or possibly a K'vort will end it. A D'tai has alot more of a chance but would most likely lose.

A B'rel or K'vort would still be very maneuverable nonetheless.  Along with cloaking technology, bad ass disruptors and torpedoes, and Klingon fighting spirit, it would still beat a Warbird.  Size isn't everything.

Accidental double-post.  The B'rel may have a better chance than a K'vort due to it being smaller and faster.

What does size have to do with anything? Ships are just as easy to hit when small or large, small just makes it so you hit more subsystems with one shot. It's the 24th century, weapons can track their target, and so forth. Plus it's not like the warbirds don't have cloaking either, or less powerful weapons. Any warbird can beat any BoP anyday.

Really?  Klingons are not stupid, so they have to have some way to fight against unimmeasureable odds.  They have high expectations, and if they still have Birds of Prey, then those ships do stand a chance, for Klingons still use things that are useful.  Even the D7 is still used by them due to it being comparable in battle against unimmeasureable odds.

thank you donald for defending me.  AND... it;s not stock bridge commander all ships are more cannon.

They still use alot of ships, are you understanding me? IT DOESN'T MATTER, the most that could come out of a BoP vs warbird fight is a heavily damaged warbird and slightly more space dust. Does anyone else see this as a possibility because i'm starting to get bored with repeating myself.

okay fine i'll end this god forsaken topic before we start a war... jesus talk about a lover of romulans...

Tru dat ;)