Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations

Why does that major powers have those big bulky warp nacells while other ships usally have none or it is intergraded into the ship.


Isn't a warp nacell an easy target?

be cuss thats haw jeen rodinbary made the ferst ship like that. so thay all have to look like it so thay will be easy to tell thay are a fetreashon ship. just like all kingons have some thing incomin thare culer and sapes in thare desine.

hm, that's a good question
as far as i know it's because warp nacells have some radiation and therefore they are usually built "outside" the ship to avoid radiation within the sections where people usually work and live.

those fractions (for example the ferengi :P ) who don't use external warp nacells are either immune to the radiation or just risk the health of their crew to save money

i stoped tring to figer out st after enterprise came out. if you do triy to you will eand up in a sicehospital riting on the walls. and drooling.

Enterprise has that effect.

enterprise is lethal

like capt. benjamin sisqo in DS9 :lol: ... talkin to prophets... writin his own life.... yea.. sure ;) :lol:

i think optec is right about that... and i think that the later ships got a better protection against the radiation, so that they dont need to build them outside... as for romulans, they dont even use warpnacelles... they got their quantumsingularity... i think the ferengi usin the same... cause its kinda same ship-design i mean.. look at the warbird and the marauder...

Lets kill everyone who is in Enterprise and remake the show to where we are back in the 24th century and it has picard flying around with the E-E.

Yes radiation would be bad so Optecs reply makes sense, another reason DS9 don't make sense.

WHAT ABOUT THE DEFIANT DAMNIT.. Obviously there is no significant danger, its merely design.. gene roddenberry WANTED all fed ships to have necells sticking out ><.
Anywho, Warbirds still have warp drive.. a warp core generates energy, quantum sigularity can still produce enough energy for it..

Enterprise IS killing others.. remember the episode when they were all stuck in the warp necells? *forgets why, but yeah, obviously not too much radiation..

Remember that Episode? Sure I do.

But:

The warp drive was shutdown and they were hiding from some kind of ion storm.
The maintenance tunnel within the nacelles was the only place on the ship that was protected well enough against the radiation from the storm.

While they were "hiding", several intruders came onto the ship and tried to reactivate the warp drive. It was made clear that, if they had succeeded, all the people withing the nacelles would have died.

So that episode is no argument. And yes, in the 60s there were several ideas of spaceship design (e.g. those of Eugen Sänger) that included propulsion system in nacelles to protect the crew from radiation. That idea led to the ship design in TOS.

Now, if ships from TNG and so on do not follow the idea, then it's the developer's fault. Maybe they have an explanation for it, but from an objective point of view it seems simply wrong.

Explanation for alien vessels could be: Different method to generate subspace fields (warp fields).

Explanation for defiant could be: Improved radiation shielding, just as the shuttles seem to have (nacelles much closer to crew).

Noone knows for sure...

but remiber the defint was slow what was it like warp 8 was its max.  and the romulans and kingons both keep thare worp eangens wwhay from the mane body of the ship.

I see changeling, i havent watched that episode in a long time  :lol:
Perhaps it's antimatter radiation, in which case it wouldnt be a threat to the romulans because they use artificial singularities. Blah. As we said in chat, we cant make sure because we dont know all the facts ><

although antimatter doesnt flow through the necells, plasma does  :mad:  :mad:  :mad:  DAMN YOU STAR TREK, WHY CANT YOU EXPLAIN EVERYTHING!

The radiation idea about nacelles is total bull. Radiation only dissipates by ionising matter. No matter in vacuum, so radiation continues forever, essentially.

@volume why cant i explain everything? because i am not gene rodddenberry
 

well duh... like you know its just like ewww with that info..... o geee i broke a nuther #^&* finger nale. ^&* @$^* !@$% &(*@  

WTH you on about?

you know what they were going to make aseires with sulu and the excellsior

rodenberry wote one book ht inspired 40 years of good tv shows with no actual reason, why should nauces be a reason. they r out there because it helps the warp velosities in a warp buble creating a stronger warp buble which means more power wich means more speed. the other races that arnt super powes have naucels inside because it costs less and that is also why the defiant goes at only warp 8 :hmmm:  -_-  

Damn that Warp field geometry. :)

Ok, that's the reason for nacelles "now".
Back in the 60s when the "Starship class" design was made (later known as "Constitution class", noone knew of anything like a Warp field / bubble.
So that never was the reason for making nacelles.

In fact, the idea of protecting the ship from hazardous "effects" was rather the reason as those theories were around at that time.

That "radiation" (as you said, gamma radiation or electromagnetic waves don't get weaker in vacuum) may consist in particels that loose there effect very fast or it could be that it was not about radiation, but about EM fields. Such a field would have certain dimensions. Building the nacelles far enough away from the crew compartments would protect it from that field.

Remember, Klingon and Romulan starships in TOS had Nacelles as well.
So it might be that originally it was thought, if a ship uses the same propulsion as the USS Enterprise, it would need nacelles.

At last it is again about inconsistencies beetween TNG+ and TOS.
So when talking about Fleet Operations era, the need for nacelles would be due to Warp field geometry problems.

dont even bother helping me with science project :lol:  

Is my post too stupid? I find it rather logical. :huh:  

the aucels were out there in tos because they could collesct Xtra antimatter in warp flight ot there

Hm, maybe. However I thought the ramscoop was rather for collecting deuterium/hydrogen, as anti-matter is rather unusual in open space.

oh yea, srry and thier nikname is bussard collectors

Bussard collectors or Bussard ramscoop, I saw both terms from time to time.
Just shortened it to ramscoop because I don't believe they were called Bussard collectors before TNG era (the Constitution class refit and the original Excelsior even seem to lack a ramscoop).

Really? I think vents on the front of the Constitution class's necelles are clearly visible.

But they look hardly as if they could contain magnetic projectors that could collect particles from space, I think. But perhaps they were meant to do so nevertheless. ;)

(http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/other/1701-a-planet.jpg)

All other collectors looked different (NX-01, Constitution class, Ambassador class, Galaxy class, Sovereign class).

So that's why I thought, the refit does not seem to have it. For the original Excelsior it's a rather definitive no.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/ot...acedock-st3.jpg (http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/other/er-spacedock-st3.jpg)
 

They still look like vents...

Sure, everyone needs vent's to release plasma when necessary. That does not mean that is a Bussard collector, as it needs projectors that generate a field to collect the particles.

Perhaps there are some, but why are all others glowing red then?

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/so...ign-nacelle.jpg (http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/sovereign-nacelle.jpg)
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/other/1701-k7.jpg (http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/other/1701-k7.jpg)
http://www.decipher.com/startrek/cardlists...T2E-EN01077.jpg (http://www.decipher.com/startrek/cardlists/secondedition/images/ST2E-EN01077.jpg)
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/ot...defiant-top.jpg (http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/other/defiant-top.jpg)
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/ot...voyager-top.jpg (http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/other/voyager-top.jpg)
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/ot...ide-oblique.jpg (http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/other/enterprise-tvguide-oblique.jpg)

why would they vent plasma in front of the ship? I'm sure they can but I doubt they would make huge vents souly for that single purpose.

I can explain the lack of red Bussard collectors, the ship designers of the TMP movies wanted a change from the TOS version. Since that was the only ship they designed in the first movie and in the second movie the only new ship was the Miranda which had the same Necelles, they continued on the same way til TNG.

Enterprise is basically the Akira class with slight necell changes.

The question is, how much did they "think".

I say, yes it could be a ramscoop. But I have no definitive proof for it. It could be something else, it could have to do with cooling, venting, collecting.

But I did never see an official diagram which said what it is.

Sure, they designed a completely new ship. The design process started with planning Star Trek 2 (the series) and ended in TMP. However, I first heard someone explicitly mentioning the ramscoop in TNG (where it was eventually used).

So, it's not sure.

It's all pure speculation I suppose and isn't even important, as long as they have weapons and engines.

WHY NOT ASK GENE RODENBERRY? :mad:  

Because hes dead.

good point

another good point: CHANGE THE SIZE OF THAT PICTURE U MORON

why?
MAKE ME! :P  

fite fite fite fite fite fite!!!!

j/k

ok now i got the coolest sig pic

It looks like a star trek convention and a gay rights parade collided head on :P  

LMAO

wadya mean lamo?

hes cool its pink but he just like moving gift animashon.

LUV THAT DISRUPTOR BAK :D

I love the queerish backround, btw lmao means laughing my ass off.

Yeah I know this thread is dead, but concerning the Defiant's lack of warp nacells:

Warp nacells are Starfleet's way of making extremely maneuverable ships, basically it's a stack of warp coils on end, like a solenoid.

Defiant's aren't maneuverable at warp, since they're designed to be escort fighters (anti-borg and anti-dominion mostly) for colonists and freighters. Since both types of ships have no warp or very slow warp it's not a problem. Also, since combat always occurs at impulse the defiant doesn't need anything fancy under the hood, so to speak.

Of course all this presupposes that anyone at DS9 knew or cared about "warp mechanics" and why combat never occurs at warp (one phaser or disruptor hit to the nacells or exhaust or whatever and the whole ship disintegrates at the subspace boundary). So whatever.

The Technical Manual and other "official" sources state that Phasers can't be fired at Warp (because they don't fire faster than light at all). That's why torpedoes exist, they sustain the warp speed they are fired at.

If some episodes have shown something different, they are wrong.

i only saw them firing torps at warpspeed. like the episode of tng with the cube and stuff

My mistake. You're both right, I should have said "photon torpedos."

Well this ant to dead. lol dont know if it was posted but ill put in this....

I figured that the reson for the nasels being so far out was to have optimal warp field balance, (man dose my spelling stink to night or what) the nessles are centered making the field stronger.  

nomtr yourj speellingds is finens = no your speling if fine my speeling rely sucks

lol you wodnt happen to know any one named Link would you. lol he is jsut as bad, in the clan we call him our code writer. lol  

lol

Dont forget the copout about modifications being made to phasers so they will work at warp, but one reason for outer nacels ie voyager had ajustable ones so they could greater control the waro field although it looks like it only has 2 setings warp and impulse.

Thats what i was saying. i think. lol  

all i know is that they can do anything and come up with an excuse beacuse most of this stuff is just bad science that coudlent work. Or magic?